Altrincham media man Edward Martin posts a Twitter thread with findings for the three up-three down debate, something fans want to see.
There are two promotion places are up for grabs right now from the National League, one automatic and the other being through the playoffs, from the fifth tier to the fourth.
However, four teams get promoted from League Two to League One and now there are strong calls to even it out to three up, three down across the English Football League are growing ever louder, with many a pundit, manager, player and fan wanting it.
Edward Martin (@EdMartin_AFC) issued a Twitter thread, starting off in the first tweet: “No club has ever been relegated from the Football League the season following their promotion since it was introduced in 1986.
“With Scunthorpe and Oldham currently in the relegation zone, is it time we had a three up-three down model?
“Here are some further findings…
“1.1)
“Only 7 of the 45 teams relegated from the EFL have made an instant return the following season (15.6%).
“Cheltenham Town were the last to achieve this in 2016 prior to Grimsby last season.
“The Mariners are also the first after finishing outside the top four, finishing 6th!”
1.1)
Only 7 of the 45 teams relegated from the EFL have made an instant return the following season (15.6%).
Cheltenham Town were the last to achieve this in 2016 prior to Grimsby last season.
The Mariners are also the first after finishing outside the top four, finishing 6th!
— Edward Martin (@EdMartin_AFC) December 20, 2022
“1.2)
“Since the play-offs were introduced in 2003, 17 teams have been relegated from League Two that didn’t finish bottom.
“Only 10 of those have returned to the EFL (58.8%) with just 3 making an instant return (17.65%).
“Only 1 has won the Conference title at the first attempt.”
“2)
“26 of the 45 relegated EFL teams finished in the top 10 in the Conference the following season (57.8%) with an average league finish of 9th (8.78).
“21 of the 51 promoted Conference teams finished in the top 10 of League Two (41.2%) with an average finish of 12th (11.92).”
2)
26 of the 45 relegated EFL teams finished in the top 10 in the Conference the following season (57.8%) with an average league finish of 9th (8.78).
21 of the 51 promoted Conference teams finished in the top 10 of League Two (41.2%) with an average finish of 12th (11.92).
— Edward Martin (@EdMartin_AFC) December 20, 2022
“3.1)
“Of the 45 relegated teams, 30 made it to the FA Cup 1R in the following season with 2 making it to the 4R but none ever to the 5R.
“Of the 51 promoted teams, 29 have won their opening 1R match (56.9%) with 13 making it to the 3R, 4 to the 4R and 1 going to the 5R in 2012.
“3.2)
“Average FA Cup rounds progressed:
1.24 – Relegated teams
0.92 – Promoted teams
3.2)
Average FA Cup rounds progressed:
1.24 – Relegated teams
0.92 – Promoted teams— Edward Martin (@EdMartin_AFC) December 20, 2022
“4.1)
“Of the 45 relegated teams, 15 have made the QF of the FA Trophy in the following season with only 6 progressing to the SF, 3 made it to the Final and 2 winning the competition.
“2011 – Darlington
2017 – York City
“4.2)
“Of the 51 promoted teams, 16 made it to the QF of the FA Trophy in the same season with 11 progressing to the SF, 8 to the Final and 5 winning the competition.
“1992 – Colchester United
1993 – Wycombe Wanderers
2012 – York City
2014 – Cambridge United
2020 – Harrogate Town
4.2)
Of the 51 promoted teams, 16 made it to the QF of the FA Trophy in the same season with 11 progressing to the SF, 8 to the Final and 5 winning the competition.
1992 – Colchester United
1993 – Wycombe Wanderers
2012 – York City
2014 – Cambridge United
2020 – Harrogate Town— Edward Martin (@EdMartin_AFC) December 20, 2022
“5.1)
“17 of the 51 promoted teams have been relegated back into non-league football having an average life of 8.71 seasons in the EFL.
“No promoted team has ever been relegated the following season.
“Only 1 team has lasted just 2 seasons and that was Macclesfield Town in 2020.
“5.2)
“Of the 19 teams who went up to the Football League via the play-offs, only 4 have been relegated (21.1%).
“20 of the 24 Conference teams promoted since 2010 have maintained their EFL status.
5.2)
Of the 19 teams who went up to the Football League via the play-offs, only 4 have been relegated (21.1%).
20 of the 24 Conference teams promoted since 2010 have maintained their EFL status.
— Edward Martin (@EdMartin_AFC) December 20, 2022
“5.3)
“17 of the 45 relegated teams have failed to return to the EFL (37.8%).
“It has taken an average of 4.07 seasons for the other 28 clubs to gain promotion with Stockport County taking the longest (11 years).
“Only 1 of the 7 relegated teams since 2018 have been promoted.
“6.1)
“Average points per game for newly promoted Conference teams in their first season in the Football League.
“1988 to 1990 – 1.46
1991 to 1995 – 1.63
1996 to 2000 – 1.42
2001 to 2005 – 1.42
2006 to 2010 – 1.37
2011 to 2015 – 1.36
2016 to 2021 – 1.28
6.1)
Average points per game for newly promoted Conference teams in their first season in the Football League.
1988 to 1990 – 1.46
1991 to 1995 – 1.63
1996 to 2000 – 1.42
2001 to 2005 – 1.42
2006 to 2010 – 1.37
2011 to 2015 – 1.36
2016 to 2021 – 1.28— Edward Martin (@EdMartin_AFC) December 20, 2022
“6.2)
“Average points per game for relegated League Two teams in their first season in the Conference.
“1988 to 1990 – 2.01
1991 to 1995 – 1.45
1996 to 2000 – 1.57
2001 to 2005 – 1.49
2006 to 2010 – 1.46
2011 to 2015 – 1.53
2016 to 2021 – 1.48
“7)
“7 ex-EFL clubs have been relegated from the Conference after falling out of the Football League. Scarborough were the first to suffer this in 2007.
“In 2018, York City became the first ever club to suffer back-to-back relegations from League Two to the Conference North/South.
7)
7 ex-EFL clubs have been relegated from the Conference after falling out of the Football League. Scarborough were the first to suffer this in 2007.
In 2018, York City became the first ever club to suffer back-to-back relegations from League Two to the Conference North/South.
— Edward Martin (@EdMartin_AFC) December 20, 2022
“8)
“29 of the 51 teams promoted from the Conference have climbed further up the Football League
“6 have made it to the 2nd Tier (EFL Championship):
“Colchester @ColU_Official (2007)
Doncaster @drfc_official (2009)
Yeovil @YTFC (2014)
Burton @burtonalbionfc (2017)
Luton @LutonTown (2020)
Wycombe @wwfcofficial (2021)
8)
29 of the 51 teams promoted from the Conference have climbed further up the Football League
6 have made it to the 2nd Tier (EFL Championship):@ColU_Official (2007)@drfc_official (2009)@YTFC (2014)@burtonalbionfc (2017)@LutonTown (2020)@wwfcofficial (2021)
— Edward Martin (@EdMartin_AFC) December 20, 2022
Stevenage manager Steve Evans revealed he is keen for a switch to three up and three down between League Two and the National League.
“I think it should happen,” he said as per The Comet. “You only have to look at the strength of the teams in the National League and how difficult it is to get out.
“Notts County are a wonderful club, there’s Wrexham and I’ve not even mentioned Chesterfield and a host of other top clubs.
“I think it should be three up and three down.
“That might have been a punishment for Stevenage in previous seasons but as long as I sit at this desk, it’ll never be a consideration.”
Mark Ives, a general manager of the National League, spoke with the BBC that talks between themselves and the EFL had been “constructive”.
He said: “Would a three up, three down situation be better for the game, not just the National League but across the pyramid of football from step six right the way up through the game? Would it be better? Yes of course it would.
“I can’t go into the details but we are having conversations with the EFL about progressing that and what I can say is that they are constructive conservations and I would be hopeful at some stage in the future we will get into that situation where we have three up, three down.
“It is what football deserves.
“It is a fantastic league but it is a tough league to get out of with a lot of very good clubs in it.
“So if you are an EFL club that comes down would you not want the opportunity to get out of it as soon as you possibly can?
“Three up, three down is a better way of achieving that.
“We have a fantastic working relationship with the EFL, we meet with them on a regular basis.
“I’m fairly certain that I’m comfortable in saying in what we really want is what is right for football across the game.”
There was reaction as the Altrincham media man posts a Twitter thread with findings for three up-three down debate…
@ethansgrumps: It’s definitely time we had a proper football pyramid with three up three down
@pieorama2: This season it’s quite possible that Notts & Wrexham could get over 100 points each, but one of them could well fail to go up through the playoffs.
@Adrian_Corbett: Any improvement in numbers up is a good thing. But this needs to happen along with a salary cap.
@terras4ever: In theory more promotion places sounded good, but all that has happened is the league that was formed to give semi pro clubs national competition has been flooded with ex EFL clubs.
@JamesHa19293771: I would like to see more playoffs between sides at the bottom of one division v top of league below. Maybe this is an option. To begin with perhaps. Prove your worth. Prove you are good enough by beating the team you are replacing.
@TrevB58: Sure, let’s fuck it up even more for the decent teams trying to make their way up the pyramid by clogging it up by causing more wage inflation with more overblown, over paid over budget, finance distorting failed league clubs. If this happens NLS and NLN should split from the NL
@CupChange: More than half of the National League is made up of former Football League clubs. Time for League 3 so we have 5 divisions each of 20 teams in the Premier League / Football League. 3 up / 3 down. And no play-offs.
@djcp87: I’d go further. Premiership, Championship, League 1, then expand League 2 to a North/South model. Reduce the costs at the bottom of the Pyramid, increase local interest and funnel success upwards. We have enough established clubs to avoid the German thing of second teams too.
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